Christmas Posting

Hi all,

Later today I am flying back to the States and will be there until the 29th of this month. I'm going to chill out, catch up with family and friends and shop for cheap clothes and gadgets. I'm going to eat my own weight in steak, and freeze my $%^*& off. In short, I'm going to have a normal family Christmas.

So for the next couple of weeks, my posting to EAB is going to take on a rather more leisurely pace, though it won't stop completely. If I can manage to drag my bloated carcass to a family member's PC I should be able to dash off the occasional missive.

I want all of you to do the same - go home, see your families, reflect on the year past, and come back in January refreshed and ready to go. I have some good ideas and initiatives I will be kicking off in the New Year, and I want you all to have a think over Christmas of what we can do once the election year kicks off properly. Things are looking a bit shaky on the election front at the moment, but as we all know a lot can happen in 11 months...

Comments

[Chrish]

Luke & Company,

All of you have a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. Although we do disagree on some issue I do wish to thank you and your comrades for your courage, determination, and committment for standing up, voicing your opinions, and this site.

[Jim]

I second that emotion.

-Jim

http://www.ohgeorge.com/issues.html

[Jim]

I thought this was the Merry Christmas post. But somebody had to put the crazy conspiracy link on it. That's too bad.

[Chrish]

Jim,

ha ha ha.... Never mind {no name} the poor fellow must be one of those Anti-Christmas Anti-New Year Anti-Everything folks that seem to pop up every now and then.....

You have a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year the same to your family.

{no name}, you also do the same......

[Jim]

And right back at you and yours Chrish. Take care

[kaj]

To give you something to ponder while on your flight stateside, Luke:

Talk about "liberal bias in the media"...

The chairman of the independent commission states that the Bush Administration "could, and should, have prevented 9/11", and yet no mainstream media outlet seems willing to pick it up (you can find the article here: http://truthout.org/docs_03/121803A1.shtml)

Typical.

[Kaj]

And don't forget to click on "Go to original" on the web page posted.

[Chrish]

Kaj,

I'll check this out but, WHERE's your Merry Christmas to everybody, Hmmmmm?

[Del]

Happy Holidays to All...

Whatever flavor is yours...

[bobo]

More on CBS.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/12/17/eveningnews/main589137.shtml

Del, are you sure you want to say how great the Bush Administration is at National Security?

MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bobo]

I'm finding the story, but I would have expected this to be front page news, and for a while.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,106086,00.html

[Del]

Amazing bobo your limited view when reading the links you listed - specifically that 9/11 could and should have been prevented. I do not disagree with that assessment.

What’s amazing is how automatically all the blame is targeted at Bush. More the reason why you should get started on the book I recommended by Goldberg.

You see Bush was in office for less than a year when 9/11 happened. Any sane person knows that fixing the mess left by Clinton's reign for 8 years was going to take quite some time. Sadly we had 9/11, which certainly escalated the much needed fixing which is still going on.

Again here is a prime example on how the news media takes a real story and gives it a bit of a twist and then of course liberals and losing Democrats will grasp this opportunity to hopefully gain some more voters and bash Bush.

The majority of Americans see between the lines. Most know that when a Democrat is in office (in our time)- they just don’t quite know how to handle our National Security. Any logical person can see the reaction from Clinton when the trade towers were first bombed in the early nineties. Clinton didn’t even visit the site not to mention he continued to decimate the military and handcuffing our intelligence agencies. He certainly missed the cue that a 9/11 could happen! It was on his watch when the pot was brewing!

As we get closer to the election – stories like the one you pointed to will continue to be ‘enhanced’ and ‘manipulated’ by our liberal media hoping to dislodge Bush from office.

Again – get started on the book – Goldberg shows so many examples of this with real history that it may actually shock you not to mention maybe enlighten you.

[Jim]

Clinton had golden opportunities to take out both Usama and Saddam with single shots. But he chose to be like the French and the libs and pretend that evil doesn't exist. Yes 9/11 could have been prevented. Thank you president Rodham.

[Chrish]

LOL!!! And here I thought this was the place for posting Merry Christmas's and stuff.....

Bobo, wasn't it on Clinton's watch that Al Qaida
first attacked the WTC and wasn't it also on Clinton's watch that the attack on the USS Cole occurred? Not sure about the USS Cole. If I recall correctly Clinton's response was to lob a couple of cruise missles into Afghanistan and hit a couple of old, empty training bases.

Also, wasn't it during Clinton's watch that the various intelligence agencies were effectively hobbled by various rules, regulations, cutbacks
due to Liberal meddling with how the intelligence agencies run their various clandestine intelligence gathering? Such rules and regulations requiring that they not hire thugs or other nefarious types and that they should be more holy or perfect than priests......

Let's keep in mind that GWB had only been in office for about a year when 9/11 happened BUT, Clinton was in for 8 years... One has to ask the question what was he doing regarding our intelligence agencies during those 8 years?

I agree the FBI, CIA, etc did fail in not paying attention to the red flags that must have popped up but, I would also imagine they might have been a little gun shy due to previous complaints. After all isn't there something called "No profiling" or is that "No Racial Profiling"? I guess it isn't of any consequence that the terrorists of 9/11 were of Middle Eastern origin, between the ages of 21 - 45, sometimes have the slight facial growth going to name a few general characteristics..... But, we musn't stop them as that would be "Profiling". It's OK, of course, to stop old ladies, mothers with babies and or small children......

[bobo]

Maybe it is spin - we won't know until the report comes out in May. I'm just really curious.....can I wait until May?

I did find this part interesting (from the CBS story):

"Appointed by the Bush administration, Kean, a former Republican governor of New Jersey, is now pointing fingers inside the administration and laying blame.

'There are people that, if I was doing the job, would certainly not be in the position they were in at that time because they failed. They simply failed,' Kean said.

To find out who failed and why, the commission has navigated a political landmine, threatening a subpoena to gain access to the president's top-secret daily briefs. Those documents may shed light on one of the most controversial assertions of the Bush administration – that there was never any thought given to the idea that terrorists might fly an airplane into a building.

'I don't think anybody could have predicted that they would try to use an airplane as a missile, a hijacked airplane as a missile,' said national security adviser Condoleeza Rice on May 16, 2002.

'How is it possible we have a national security advisor coming out and saying we had no idea they could use planes as weapons when we had FBI records from 1991 stating that this is a possibility,' said Kristen Breitweiser, one of four New Jersey widows who lobbied Congress and the president to appoint the commission.

[bobo]

Anyone read this?

http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf

I'm going to try to get to that in the next month or so (as well as "Bias" by Bernard Goldberg, of course!) Looking forward to it.

[Chrish]

I also found it interesting that Kean was appointed by the Bush administration. At least one could say that Kean is maintaining his independence and not afraid to follow the evidence whereever it may lead.

Quite honestly I don't believe that there was any intentional wrong doing as I'm sure the media and others are going to try and mutate this into.

Let's face it We Are Human and We Will Make Mistakes that's the human condition. It doesn't make things better but, that's the reality of it. Contrary to what some may believe this is not a Perfect World nor will it ever be a perfect world no matter how hard they may attempt to try.

I don't think anybody would have believed for one moment that people would hijack some commercial airplanes and fly them into buildings. Unfortunately, that includes the Intelligence Agencies. A number of years ago who would have believed that people would strap some explosives around themselves, walk into the midst of innocent men, women, and children, and blow themselves up killing those around them?

Let's face it we of the West do not think in those terms of action BUT, as we now know, there are those who do and who will.

I'm sure Kean is going to discover that one person or group of people who did not take the warning seriously. And who can honestly say that they would have taken it seriously? I freely admit I cannot say that I would have not in my wildest dreams could I have conceived of anybody being capable of doing that.

I don't believe Kean will discover that it was done intentionally but, sadly, an unfortunate mistake. A very unfortunate and terrible mistake. Nothing more, nothing less than that.

Hopefully one that will never occur again.

[bobo]

That seems awfully naive. There has been intelligence about the plans to fly planes into important U.S. targets since at least 1995 (I've also read 1991).

If they are suicide bombers, why not suicide pilots?

This isn't new. Think of the Japanese kamikaze pilots - the willingness to kill oneself in order to hit an important enemy target goes back for at least hundreds if not thousands of years.

Anyway, there's lots of time to discuss the findings of the report, which doesn't come out until May anyway.

[Del]

Again - Bush was in office less than a year.

I agree that Condi's remark may have been a bit naïve though one has to keep in mind that when intelligence concerning this type of probable attack was being discussed – she was in no position to have inside information. Remember her remark wasn’t so much that using a plane, as a missile was unthinkable – but more that it was the main option of terrorist groups. If Clinton would have heeded and taken a more responsible approach to the threats/intelligence (remember they came under his reign) – at the very least our intelligence agencies could have been better mobilized.

So here we have a new administration just coming into power and they have an intelligence community that is decentralized with no real sharing of information. Add to that the fact that terrorism like 9/11 is not a priority.

Nine months later – 9/11 happened.

Since that tragedy – we have an entirely revamped intelligence community.

Here’s the ironic thing – things like the Patriot Act are much needed to fight terrorism yet the Dems and liberals bitch and moan about it. When the recent report on 9/11 surfaces – they bitch and moan that the Bush administration didn’t do enough. If Gore would have been in power – imagine what would have been done about 9/11. Yep the same thing Clinton did with the earlier bombing and the attack on the USS Cole – absolutely NOTHING!

The Dems and Liberals complaining about the steps being taken by the Bush Administration is a perfect example of how the Dems react according to their want of POWER! They have no basic beliefs – they bend with the wind.

The majority of Americans are ‘hip’ to the current ways of the Democrats and will not have anymore of it!

The jig is up – until the Democrats quit the ‘pointing finger game’ and Bush bashing and actually come up with something they stand for and really prove it – their power in our country will continue to diminish.

[Chrish]

So Del, honestly now before 9/11 would you have believe that people would hijack commercial airplanes filled with passengers and fly them into buildings?

Naive? I probably am I also like to believe that people are basically good and try to see that good in others. It's hard for me, even having been through a war, to conceive of a person or persons capable of that level of depravity and violence......

Yes, I've read about the Kamikazi's of WWII but, I think that was different they were in combat, warship to warship, plane to plane, military to military. Here you have people using people as weapons, non-military or non-combatant airplanes filled with non-combatant civilians being used as weapons against non-combatant or non-military targets.

That would be the same as us carpet bombing Baghdad similar to what was done during WWII in Germany...

My point being is still before 9/11 who could honestly have conceived that a person or persons would ACTUALLY use civilian airlines filled with civilians as weapons and fly them into buildings? Not I, could you?

[Chrish]

Oh, one other thing regarding this who's to blame thing. If 9/11 is GWB's fault or that of his administration then shouldn't Clinton and his administration also be held responsible for the first attack on the WTC as well as the USS Cole?

Given the Intelligence if they knew or suspected 9/11 was going to happen then it should be equally correct in assuming that the Intelligence knew or suspected the first attack on the WTC and Clinton was also made aware of that possibility. So how come that attack was successful for all that it did and no blame or finger pointing was occurring back then?

Is that because it wasn't as big as 9/11 or could it be because a Democrat was in the office of the Presidency?

Again, BOTH sides have made their mistakes so BOTH sides should be held accountable NOT one or the other just because they happen to be a Democrat or a Republican, for that matter.

[Del]

You're absolutely right! When I referred to Condi - as I stated - it wasn't that she could not have imagined that a plane can be used as a missile but that it was the top choice of terrorists.

It's evident that before 9/11 - it was not something in anyone's mind.

A perfect example is the plane that went down in Penn on that same day. The folks on that plane knew what had happened earlier. Once they knew - they went into react mode.

Today when I travel - I know there is more of an awareness on the plane. People are more inclined to get involved if something looks suspicious.

As far as the Kamikazes – many were forced with just enough gas to get to their destination and explosives implanted around the engine if they tried to land.

I do agree with your view...

[Chrish]

Ooops, again I blew it sorry Del. My previous post was in response to Bobo's statements not you....

Exactly, and if the people on the three planes that hit the WTC towers and the Pentagon knew what was going to happen they, most probably, would have reacted the same.

It's very easy with hindsight to sit and say well "they should have done this" or "they should have done that" and "Bush should have done this"
or even "it should never have happened" but, it did. And pointing fingers isn't going to undo it.

I'm equally sure that all those who had the intelligence reports before them wished they had done things differently had reacted with more urgency and are carrying the weight of their errors on their shoulders. I sure as hell would be. In retrospect there are a lot of things that should have been done differently like tighter security in our airports. Look at Israel. You would not believe the security checks you have to go through just to get into the embarkation area. You think security is tight here in the states or some of those other countries? No comparison to Israel. What's really sad to realize is the kind of security Israel has in place would never be tolerated here in the states. You complain about the security and alleged loss of civil rights here? This is nothing absolutely nothing compared to Israel's security. But one thing for sure you can be fairly certain that your flight is going to be a safe one and you're going to arrive to your destination safe and sound.

Quite honestly I really wished they would tighten up security at our airports similar to the Israelis. I assure you they are not concerned nor interested in such BS as "profiling". If you look even close to what a typical terrorist looks like or even act suspicious in the slightest manner YOU WILL BE COMPLETELY AND THOROUGHLY CHECKED before even getting into the boarding areas.....

[bobo]

I've read your posts about Clinton, but then again I've read books about what the Bush Administration *didn't* do when warned about 9/11, and it was shocking. Biased, perhaps, but I am interested in reading more before I decide.

To tell you the truth, we can sit here and speculate quite a lot, but I'm not interested in discussing this subject more until the report from the Independent 9/11 Commission comes out - we'll have a lot better discussions at that point. Cheers fellas -

[Del]

At least the good news is that Bush was in office after 9/11 and has done the right thing.

Considering what the Dems did previous to other attacks, thankfully we have someone in office that has cojones and has made a huge difference.

That's the biggest reason why Bush will win again because he knew what needed to be done and the majority of Americans are behind him 100%!

[Gulf Coast Surfer]

I´d like to wish you all a Merry Christmas, but please take a minute to visit the memorial site of a good American girl who lost her life working for peace between the Palestinians and Jews: Rachel Corrie. http://www.distanceeddesign.com/rachel/index.htm

[Jim]

Thanks for the awareness, Gulf Coast Surfer. Anyone who gives their life for peace is a hero.

What would the world be like if only the Israelis and Palestinians could live in peace? Both sides keep committing atrocities. That must be Bush's next project.

[Chrish]

I second that motion....

Pray for the Peace of Jerusalem.