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September 22, 2004

Comments

Jim

What if, indeed. What if we had a dictator who brutalized us for 30 years? (this won't happen, because we have elections, term limits and checks and balances) What if this dictator only provided electricity to his favorite cities? What if electricity was in short supply because we were able now to buy things that were banned under our former president, such as computers with internet capabality, satellite tv and cell phones? What if our wives and daughters were raped by this dictator, his sons and their friends? What if husbands who tried to intervene were literally chopped into pieces for trying to save the dignity of their family members?
What if the one country that was powerful enough to help us, cut and ran when things got tough because a bunch of elitist, holier than thou protestors said, "it's not our war". What if these people blamed their own most powerful country and even got others in countries they were visiting to blame their country for all of these problems? What if these same elitists did nothing when Iraq was the world leader in human rights violations, according to Amnesty International?

Darfur, Sudan. What countries want to stop the slaughters there and what countries are blocking any U.N. action? Where is the outrage?

Chrish

Well stated Jim... What if indeed, we had
a sampling of what it would be like on 9/11.
Do you honestly believe that, given the chance and
there was no Iraq, that those mongrel dogs would have stopped there? Do you really believe that
at this very moment there aren't more of them here in the US waiting for that moment to launch
another strike? And do you really believe that
they have only recently come into Our country?

Have you been paying attention to what has been going on to the South of us? Have you not read of the reports that it appears that terrorists have assumed hispanic surnames, melded in with the illegal immigrants and have been coming in across the border, moving into the small towns, and taking up positions as accountants or other
jobs of this type? Blending into the country side
and appearing to be just another citizen but, only
waiting for that order to come in to strike.

Like it or not, Bush or no Bush, We are in a state of War. No hand wringing, nor appeasing, nor bending of the knee before these terrorist groups or Islamic fundamentalists is going to dissuade them from their goals; the destruction of the West and the US. You only have to read the quotes of Bin Laden or the fundamentalist clerics to know that that is their reality...

Jim

Right Chrish. We'll be attacked again. I have little doubt. We were actually attacked several times before 9/11. That was just our wakeup call. Yes, they (the terrorists) will blend. Afterall it's really mean to search people who might be terrorists.
Bin laden said he knew America was a country that would cut and run after he ran us our of Somalia. That's where we were doing that aweful thing of trying to deliver food and medicine to the needy. Evil America.

Jim

Sometimes it's better to say nothing than it is to insult a visiting head of state.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6081783/

Jeff

What if after the dictator was overthrown, a foreign army rolled in occupying our streets, first allowing widespread looting, then not providing security, then abused our people in prison, then set up a government of people closer to the CIA than our people, then said everything is just peachy while hundreds die every week? I think we used up our getting rid of Saddam gratitude a while back.

Getting into this debate on where the moral high ground is a waste of time. The question, is Bush a good President? Based on all the incompetence and lies, the answer is clearly no. People have died who didn't need to die and he won't tell us anything unless forced to, so we can't even tell what the truth of the matter is. Don't try and equate voting against him with putting Saddam back in power. He sucks at his job. All the good intentions in the world can't cure that.

Jim

Don't take my word for it...


"For the skeptics who do not understand the Iraqi people, they do not realize how decades of torture and repression feed our desire for freedom. At every step of the political process to date the courage and resilience of the Iraqi people has proved the doubters wrong.

(APPLAUSE)

They said we would miss January deadline to pass the interim constitution.

We proved them wrong.

They warned that there could be no successful handover of sovereignty by the end of June. We proved them wrong. A sovereign Iraqi government took over control two days early.

They doubted whether a national conference could be staged this August. We proved them wrong.

Despite intimidation and violence, over 1,400 citizens, a quarter of them women, from all regions and from every ethnic, religious and political grouping in Iraq, elected a national council.

And I pledge to you today, we'll prove them wrong again over the elections."

-Prime Minister Ayad Allawi, speaking to U.S. Congress 9/23/04

Chrish

Again, Well stated Jim... But, you know how it is
the usual crowd of nay sayers, the Dan Rather crowd are already attempting to wash over Mr. Allawi's speech. And again, without even attempting to "investigate" what their side is
saying. I wonder if Rather and CBS are going to try and trot out some more faked documents and say
"What the documents are saying is what matters.".

As usual the news media aren't giving us the whole story about Iraq. There only giving us the sensationalism, the one sided viewpoint. I was always told there are two sides to a story but, it would seem those so called "journalists" either have not heard that or ignore it.

jj

OH MY GOD! STOP THE PRESS! Kerry flip-flopped! How dare he! Hold everything! Shoot Dan Rather, arrest John Kerry!

btw, 59 dead US soldiers in Iraq so far in September (thanks to dumbass' idiocy), but let's just focus other things instead. That fucking media, how dare they remind us that 2 AMERICANS DIE EVERY DAY IN IRAQ?!
(I am not including Iraqi dead in this cause I know the likes of you guys don't really care.)

Frances

Kerry will clene Bushes clock in the debates. Then the whole country will see what a dolt Bush is.

Jeff

Jim, I'd rather take your word for it. We all know what happens when we take Bush and his allies at their word.

delal

Greetings All - been a long time since I've checked up on this most entertaining site (been playing too much golf)!

Luke - how's those 'fish & chips' tsting lately?

Anyway - just wanted to remind everyone to remember and mark my words...

Bush is going to trounce Kerry - we've got the 'security moms! (hehehe - love them women)

Don't forget - you heard it from me!

I'll be back to gloat!

Jim

Is the glass completely empty? Or is it perhaps half full?
http://chrenkoff.blogspot.com/2004/09/good-news-from-iraq-part-11_27.html

Jeff

Since the people in control are proven liars, who have tremendous motivation to save their jobs, how can you tell? Shouldn't we be able to get this straight from the man, rather than digging through blogs?

Bob

Iraqi Documents Show Saddam Possessed WMD, Had Extensive Terror Ties
Scott Wheeler, CNSNews.com
Monday, Oct. 4, 2004
Iraqi intelligence documents, confiscated by U.S. forces and obtained by CNSNews.com, show numerous efforts by Saddam Hussein's regime to work with some of the world's most notorious terror organizations, including al-Qaida, to target Americans.

The documents demonstrate that Saddam's government possessed mustard gas and anthrax, both considered weapons of mass destruction, in the summer of 2000, during the period in which United Nations weapons inspectors were not present in Iraq. And the papers show that Iraq trained dozens of terrorists inside its borders.
Story Continues Below

One of the Iraqi memos contains an order from Saddam for his intelligence service to support terrorist attacks against Americans in Somalia. The memo was written nine months before U.S. Army Rangers were ambushed in Mogadishu by forces loyal to a warlord with alleged ties to al-Qaida.
Other memos provide a list of terrorist groups with whom Iraq had relationships and considered available for terror operations against the United States.

Among the organizations mentioned are those affiliated with Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and Ayman al-Zawahiri, two of the world's most wanted terrorists. Zarqawi is believed responsible for the kidnapping and beheading of several American civilians in Iraq and claimed blame for a series of deadly bombings in Iraq Sept. 30. Al-Zawahiri is the top lieutenant of al-Qaida chief Osama bin Laden, allegedly helped plan the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist strikes on the U.S., and is believed to be the voice on an audio tape broadcast by Al-Jazeera television Oct. 1, calling for attacks on U.S. and British interests everywhere.

The Source

A senior government official who is not a political appointee provided CNSNews.com with copies of the 42 pages of Iraqi Intelligence Service documents. The originals, some of which were hand-written and others typed, are in Arabic. CNSNews.com had the papers translated into English by two individuals separately and independent of each other.

There are no handwriting samples to which the documents can be compared for forensic analysis and authentication. However, three other experts - a former weapons inspector with the United Nations Special Commission (UNSCOM), a retired CIA counter-terrorism official with vast experience dealing with Iraq, and a former advisor to then-presidential candidate Bill Clinton on Iraq - were asked to analyze the documents. All said they comport with the format, style and content of other Iraqi documents from that era known to be genuine.

Laurie Mylroie, who wrote the book "Study of Revenge: Saddam Hussein's Unfinished War Against America," and advised Bill Clinton on Iraq during the 1992 presidential campaign, told CNSNews.com that the papers represented "the most complete set of documents relating Iraq to terrorism, including Islamic terrorism" against the U.S.

Mylroie has long maintained that Iraq was a state sponsor of terrorism against the United States. The documents obtained by CNSNews.com, she said, include "correspondence back and forth between Saddam's office and Iraqi Mukhabarat [intelligence agency]. They make sense. This is what one would think Saddam was doing at the time."

Bruce Tefft, a retired CIA official who specialized in counter-terrorism and had extensive experience dealing with Iraq, said that "based on available, unclassified and open source information, the details in these documents are accurate ..."

The former UNSCOM inspector zeroed in on the signatures on the documents and "the names of some of the people who sign off on these things.

"This is fairly typical of that time era. [The Iraqis] were meticulous record keepers," added the former U.N. official, who spoke with CNSNews.com on the condition of anonymity.

The senior government official, who furnished the documents to CNSNews.com, said the papers answer "whether or not Iraq was a state sponsor of Islamic terrorism against the United States. It also answers whether or not Iraq had an ongoing biological warfare project continuing through the period when the UNSCOM inspections ended."

Presidential Campaign

The presidential campaign is currently dominated by debate over whether Saddam procured weapons of mass destruction and whether his government sponsored terrorism aimed at Americans before the U.S. invaded Iraq last year. Democrat nominee Sen. John Kerry has repeatedly rejected that possibility and criticized President Bush for needlessly invading Iraq.

"[Bush's] two main rationales - weapons of mass destruction and the al-Qaida/September 11 connection - have been proved false ... by the president's own weapons inspectors ... and by the 9/11 commission," Kerry told an audience at New York University on Sept. 20.

The Senate Intelligence Committee's probe of the 9/11 intelligence failures also could not produce any definitive links between Saddam's government and 9/11. And United Nations as well as U.S. weapons inspectors in Iraq have been unable to find the biological and chemical weapons Saddam was suspected of possessing.

But the documents obtained by CNSNews.com shed new light on the controversy.

They detail the Iraqi regime's purchase of five kilograms of mustard gas on Aug. 21, 2000 and three vials of malignant pustule, another term for anthrax, on Sept. 6, 2000. The purchase order for the mustard gas includes gas masks, filters and rubber gloves. The order for the anthrax includes sterilization and decontamination equipment.


The documents show that Iraqi intelligence received the mustard gas and anthrax from "Saddam's company," which Tefft said was probably a reference to Saddam General Establishment, "a complex of factories involved with, amongst other things, precision optics, missile, and artillery fabrication."

"Sa'ad's general company" is listed on the Iraqi documents as the supplier of the sterilization and decontamination equipment that accompanied the anthrax vials. Tefft believes this is a reference to the Salah Al-Din State Establishment, also involved in missile construction.


Jaber Ibn Hayan General Co. is listed as the supplier of the safety equipment that accompanied the mustard gas order. Tefft described the company as "a 'turn-key' project built by Romania, designed to produce protective CW [conventional warfare] and BW [biological warfare] equipment [gas masks and protective clothing]."

"Iraq had an ongoing biological warfare project continuing through the period when the UNSCOM inspections ended," the senior government official and source of the documents said. "This should cause us to redouble our efforts to find the Iraqi weapons of mass destruction programs."

'Hunt the Americans'

The first of the 42 pages of Iraqi documents is dated Jan. 18, 1993, approximately two years after American troops defeated Saddam's army in the first Persian Gulf War. The memo includes Saddam's directive that "the party should move to hunt the Americans who are on Arabian land, especially in Somalia, by using Arabian elements ..."

On Oct. 3, 1993, less than nine months after that Iraqi memo was written, American soldiers were ambushed in Mogadishu, Somalia by forces loyal to Somali warlord Mohammed Farah Aidid, an alleged associate of Osama bin Laden. Eighteen Americans were killed and 84 wounded during a 17-hour firefight that followed the ambush in which Aidid's followers used civilians as decoys.

An 11-page Iraqi memo, dated Jan. 25, 1993, lists Palestinian, Sudanese and Asian terrorist organizations and the relationships Iraq had with each of them. Of particular importance, Tefft said, are the relationships Iraq had already developed or was in the process of developing with groups and individuals affiliated with al-Qaida, such as Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and Ayman al-Zawahiri. The U.S. is offering rewards of up to $25 million for each man's capture.

The documents describe Al-Jehad wa'l Tajdeed as "a secret Palestinian organization" founded after the first Persian Gulf War that "believes in armed struggle against U.S. and western interests." The leaders of the group, according to the Iraqi memo, were stationed in Jordan in 1993, and when one of those leaders visited Iraq in November 1992, he "showed the readiness of his organization to execute operations against U.S. interests at any time."

Tefft believes the Tajdeed group likely included al-Zarqawi, whom Teft described as "our current terrorist nemesis" in Iraq, "a Palestinian on a Jordanian passport who was with al-Qaida and bin Laden in Afghanistan prior to this period [1993]."

Tajdeed, which means Islamic Renewal, "has a Web site that posts Zarqawi's speeches, messages, claims of assassinations and beheading videos," Tefft told CNSNews.com. "The apparent linkages are too close to be accidental" and might "be one of the first operational contacts between an al-Qaida group and Iraq."


Tefft said the documents, all of which the Iraqi Intelligence Service labeled "Top secret, personal and urgent," showed several links between Saddam's government and terror groups dedicated not only to targeting America but also U.S. allies such as Egypt and Israel.

The same 11-page memo refers to the "re-opening of the relationship" with Al-Jehad al-Islamy, which is described as "the most violent in Egypt," responsible for the 1981 assassination of Egyptian President Anwar Sadat. The documents go on to describe a Dec. 14, 1990 meeting between Iraqi intelligence officials and a representative of Al-Jehad al-Islamy, that ended in an agreement "to move against [the] Egyptian regime by doing martyr operations on conditions that we should secure the finance, training and equipments."

Al-Zawahiri was one of the leaders of Jehad al-Islamy, also known as Egyptian Islamic Group, and participated in the assassination of Sadat, Tefft said. "Iraq's contact with the Egyptian Islamic Group is another operational contact between Iraq and al-Qaida," he added.

One of the Asian groups listed on the Iraqi intelligence memo is J.U.I., also known as Islamic Clerks Society. The group is led by Mawlana Fadhel al-Rahman, whom Tefft said is "an al-Qaida member and co-signed Osama bin Laden's 1998 fatwa (religious ruling) to kill Americans." The Iraqi memo from 1993 states that J.U.I.'s secretary general "has a good relationship with our system since 1981 and he is ready for any mission." Tefft said the memo shows "another direct Iraq link to an al-Qaida group."

Iraq had also maintained a relationship with the Afghani Islamist party since 1989, according to the memo. The "relationship was improved and became directly between the leader, Hekmatyar and Iraq," it states, referring to Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, an Afghani warlord who fought against the Soviet Union and current al-Qaida ally, according to Tefft.

Last year, American authorities in Afghanistan ranked Hekmatyar third on their most wanted list, behind only bin Laden and former Taliban leader Mullah Omar. Hekmatyar represents "another Iraqi link to an al-Qaida group," Tefft said.

The Iraqi intelligence documents also refer to terrorist groups previously believed to have had links with Saddam Hussein. They include Palestine Liberation Front, a group dedicated to attacking Israel, and according to the Iraqi memo, one with "an office in Baghdad."


Abu Nidal

The Abu Nidal group, suspected by the CIA of having acted as surrogates for Iraqi terrorist attacks, is also mentioned.

"The movement believes in political violence and assassinations," the 1993 Iraqi memo states in reference to the Abu Nidal organization. "We have relationships with them since 1973. Currently, they have a representative in the country. Monthly helps are given to them - 20 thousand dinars - in addition to other supports," the memo explains. (See Saddam's Connections to Palestinian Terror Groups)

Iraq not only built and maintained relationships with terrorist groups, the documents show it appears to have trained terrorists as well. Ninety-two individuals from various Middle Eastern countries are listed on the papers.

Many are described as having "finished the course at M14," a reference to an Iraqi intelligence agency, and to having "participated in Umm El-Ma'arek," the Iraqi response to the U.S. invasion in 1991. The author of the list notes that approximately half of the individuals "all got trained inside the 'martyr act camp' that belonged to our directorate."

The former UNSCOM weapons inspector who was asked to analyze the documents believes it's clear that the Iraqis "were training people there in assassination and suicide bombing techniques ... including non-Iraqis."


Bush Administration Likely Unaware of Documents


The senior government official and source of the Iraqi intelligence memos, explained that the reason the documents had not been made public before now was that the government has "thousands and thousands of documents waiting to be translated.

"It is unlikely they even know this exists," the source added.

The government official also explained that the motivation for leaking the documents "is strictly national security and helping with the war on terrorism by focusing this country's attention on facts and away from political posturing."

"This is too important to let it get caught up in the political process," the source told CNSNews.com.

To protect against the Iraqi intelligence documents being altered or misrepresented elsewhere on the Internet, CNSNews.com has decided to publish only the first of the 42 pages in Arabic, along with the English translation. Portions of some of the other memos in translated form are also being published to accompany this report. Credentialed journalists and counter-terrorism experts seeking to view the 42 pages of Arabic documents or to challenge their authenticity may make arrangements to do so at CNSNews.com's headquarters in Alexandria, Va.

Hey Bob:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/07/politics/07intel.html?hp

Sorry but uh....

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