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July 04, 2004

Comments

j.j.

Luke,

United for Peace and Justice is calling for a worldwide protest on August 29 to coincide with the start of the RNC Convention in NYC. How about an endorsement from EAB?

http://www.unitedforpeace.org/article.php?id=1810

http://www.unitedforpeace.org/modinput.php?modin=14

j.j.

check out this remarkable website. what an effort this must have been (maybe he's got just a bit too much time on his hands), but he is incredibly talented and creative.

http://www.thebushiad.com/

Chrish

J.J., I think you're right the guys got way too much time on his hands..... Interesting take
using the Illiad and the Odyssey. What's next,
The Lord of the Rings? LOL!!

Chrish

J.J.,

So, when will this United for Peace and Justice or other groups like them begin organizing world wide protests against all violence including the terrorist groups like Al Qaeda, Hamas, etc.?

j.j.

In short, because we are presumed to be better than them. I don't want to be like them and I speak up when I feel that a democratic government is behaving less than democratic. I make no distinction between a civilian killed by a suicide bomber or a missile. A life is a life.

I canĀ“t speak for UfP&J, but as for myself, I would (in British parlaimentary fashion) "refer the right honourable gentleman to the answer I gave some moments before." For me, protest against such terrorist groups is not necessary, since their mere mode operandi is an affront to human decency. It's kind of like the reason I don't protest Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot or Milosevic.

The reason I protest Bush and this war so frequently is because many people blindly support him, some solely on the virtue of "my country above all else." That begs the question, what if my country is wrong? (note: no WMD, no Saddam involvement in 9/11, 92% of Iraqis see our soldiers as an occupying force. That eliminates all 3 reasons people cite for this war.) Despite this, people continue to support a man who has misled us into such a misadventure and, in fact, still make excuses for him. It is at this point that I feel it necessary to protest.

Was any of that remotely clear? Or am I just rambling without making any sense. Perhaps I should articulate this better, but it's late and I'm about to hit the sack. Bye.

btw, I partook in the first demonstration of my life about 2 years ago and have participated in 2 more since. All 3 against Bush, and there may be more to come. So yes, I do feel very strongly about this.

Chrish

"We're better than them", "They won't listen",
"It won't do any good", blah, blah, blah. Sorry J.J, I don't buy that line of reasoning "excuses" that's a cop out.

Pete

So, Chrish.....please do inform us of all the anti-terrorism protests you've been to lately. I'm dying to know about them.

Pete

And, not that I need to state this explicitly....

If you have indeed participated in some anti-terrorism protests, I will consider whether or not your view is valid. (Bush-Cheney Reelection events don't count. Support our Troops demonstrations don't count. Etc.)

If you haven't (and only you know the truth), that makes you quite a hypocrite.

Chrish

Oh please Pete, don't be a Jack Ass. You tell me where or when an anti-terrorist protest has ever occurred anywhere on this planet? The only thing that does occur is an anti-war protest against the US but, never against those who on the other side, or a protest against Israel whenever they have retaliated against terrorists who've killed innocent men, women, and children
but, never against the terrorists who've killed them.

Who the hell are you kidding?

Chrish

Oh, excuse me Pete other than the recent "anti-terrorist protest" that occurred in Spain after that terrorist attack there has never been a protest against terrorists nor the states that support them. Interestingly enough the so-called Peace Activists or Anti-Violence groups, or the Anti-War protestors are completely silent, not a peep, not a whisper from them.

I would gladly have gone to Spain and joined them if I had the opportunity to do so.

Here's one:

http://www.bestirantravel.com/culture/wtc-vigil.html

when al-Qaida or Hamas stage a convention in NYC, then I will go to protest them as well

Chrish

Oh excuse me no name, Iran and one not too long ago in Iraq. And???

"Were above that", "it wouldn't do any good", and other types of excuses are just that - excuses, a whole lot of meaningless and empty excuses.

Sarah Forrester

Exactly what do you want everyone to do, Chrish? What is the point of railing everyone about not attending non-existent anti-terrorism protests? If you're angry because there aren't any, go start one! Don't just bitch at people because they're doing what they feel is important! At least they're doing SOMETHING. In my mind, that's better than sitting around and moaning that everyone's priorities are out of whack.

At any rate--I'd be interested to know where you think an anti-terrorism protest ought to be staged, and for what occasion? Seeing as the protests I've been to centred around Bush's state visit and his dad's fundraising visit, is there something equivelent with terrorists? The only thing that comes to mind is the recent uproar in London over a certain Muslim cleric who was given a visa, but who frequently makes speeches that could be said to "incite violence". Can we go protest in front of a mosque then? Unfortunately, no, we can't, because not all Muslims are terrorists, and we'd be acting as bad as the British National Party if we made that assumption.

Oh for fuck's sake....the point I'm trying to make, which Chrish will call an "excuse", is that while we all think terrorism is bad, holding a protest about it won't affect change. Do terrorists really care about what a bunch of working/middle class Americans think of them? Can we disrupt their activities in any meaningful way by staging a protest? The answer is NO to both. However, our own politicians care what we think (or so we hope) and we can disrupt their activities that we disagree with by using protests/publicity. We can protest about the U.S. RESPONSE to terrorism, and that's exactly what we are doing.

And back to the original point of this post--I've submitted a picture we took on a recent trip to Berlin to the Stop Bush website. While perusing the graffiti on a piece of the Berlin Wall still standing in Potsdamer Platz, I was delighted to find someone had written "Fuck G W Bush".

miriamg

Sarah, I agree. In most cases, the anti-terrorist voice is already heard by the supposed recipients. For instance, whatever you think about the policy of the Israeli army bombing the crap out of villages after every suicide bombing, the message is loud and clear.

Chrish, you get told about anti-terrorist protests, and you sneer that there aren't more. What are YOU doing about it? Those of us who protest against Bush do so because his policies don't deal effectively with terrorism, and are making it worse. We feel that pressuring our leaders (or voting new ones in) will have more impact than protesting directly against Hamas or Al-Qaida - who ALREADY KNOW that their acts are abhorrent to us and DON'T CARE what we think. In fact, the more outraged we are by them, the better, as far as they're concerned.

Stop sneering and do something positive. Organise your fellow Californians to join you in a protest, or a vigil, if that's what you want to do. And if you realy want to stand up to terrorists and show a united front, support the families of the victims of terrorism:

Madrid: http://madridappeal.practicalspain.com/

Bali: http://www.guardian.co.uk/indonesia/Story/0,2763,818278,00.html

There are a loads of groups who help the families of 9/11 victims, listed at the bottom of this page:
http://www.peacefultomorrows.org/links.html#sefgroups

Israel:
http://www.terrorvictims.com/

And support the International Red Cross.

I look forward to pictures of your local demonstration or news of your fundraising drive, Chrish. Until then, let's put this thread to rest.

David

To all -

Thank you for the post on ExpatsAgainstBush - glad my site was able to excite so much discussion. Here's to a more constructive and Bush-free future!

Keep the images coming...

Best
David

Jeff

Think about this:

3 U.S. soldiers and 10 Iraqis killed by suicide bombers = terrorism

5 Israeli settlers and 3 Israeli soldiers killed by Palestinian snipers = terrorism

20,000 Iraqis killed by U.S. tanks, missiles, smart bombs, etc. = collateral damage

Dozens of Palestinian houses razed, Palestinian boys and girls killed by Israeli rockets = self defense

Protesting terrorism doesn't do any good because the terrorists would rather be us, have the WMD, and force us to be "terrorists". Do you really think anyone would be driven to be a suicide bomber if they weren't convinced that it was the only way to defend their home, faith, or exact revenge? How are you going to protest someone blowing themselves up after deciding life is worthless when their entire family was shot up mistakenly by U.S. troops or accidentally bombed during a wedding?

The answer is clear. Remove the terrorist creating element. Sometimes the answer may be to deal with it by force, but a better more preventive answer would be for our government to stop screwing around with other people's lives just to increase our own power, particularly without regard to the consequences.

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