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November 05, 2004

Comments

Maryann

I know nobody wants to deal with the election fraud issue (again) but it might actually be the smoking gun we can pin on these guys to wake middle America up to their hypocrisy and greed.

This is a blog run by a girl whose record label I represent in the UK. She is a shameless California leftie and has gathered a few interesting bits of info. There is a trail of crumbs to be followed here, if we can be bothered to connect all the dots.

http://onlisareinsradar.com/

Mark

No place like home maybe, but fewer international graduate students are choosing to make the U.S. their home. 50% of American graduate science and engineering students are foreigners. Enrollment is down for a third straight year. Only 6% this year, but after a whopping 32% decline last year. Graduate schools country wide are alarmed.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=519&ncid=519&e=10&u=/ap/20041104/ap_on_re_us/international_students

What makes America so powerful? Technology is probably the most obvious reason, right from when foreigners in the U.S. designed the atomic bomb. Foreigners also dominate the hallways of our most revered technology companies, which coincidentally sit right smack in the middle the bluest of the blue counties.

More and more of these foreign talents that invent the American technology that we take for granted are deciding to stay home or take their skills elsewhere. Still think foreign opinion doesn't matter? Stick with Bush and Ashcroft in alienating the rest of the world and watch us get weaker and weaker.

Chrish

Oh for cryin out loud, let it go!! How utterly
pathetic.

Jim

Oh my! Chrish, exactly what you said. Give me a break.

On the other hand, what I really wanted to say was thank you to Luke for posting the maps which give a more nuanced view of the states. I think it shows that we aren't quite as divided on a state by state basis as we think. If anything the pattern shows what we're most divided by is rural vs. urban. Maybe more so than even education or income or race. I have plenty of friends that have different views than me and probably don't know anyone who is in complete agreement with their party platform, 100% of the time - Democrat or Republican.

We are America.
We are purple.

Hey Mark, please don't let it go. I thought that article was very interesting and I appreciate the information.

jj

Luke, thanks for that very informative map.

As for them "furrn" grad students, I'm sure a lot of people are happy that we ain't got no more of them liberal "furrners" coming 'n takin' over Our schools!

America made its own bed, now it has to sleep in it...

Jim

As admiral James T. Kirk once said,
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect."

delal

Ok... long ago I made predictions...

First one - Bush won!

Second one - Hillary will be the dem choice in 2008... trust me - time will prove me right.

Third one - The USA will continue to get better and better - and so will the world!

Remember when Reagan began his 'evil empire' speech - remember how the 'whole' world went against him... well... enough said.

Fourth one - The dems will continue their spiral and that's a sad thing.

It has everything to do with not opening your eyes and minds to the very thing that is transpiring in front of your faces.

Deep down - I chuckle - have another martini and toast 'you poor souls'...

Man I wish we Repubilcans had better competition!

Jim

It is sad, because we do need the Democrats. What's sad is that too many of them think of Republicans as stupid. The party that used to pride itself on being inclusionary, has become nothing of the sort. But if you don't realize what the problem is, you will never be able to fix it.

Many still aren't giving up on conspiracy theories on this election. Oy ve!

Chrish

Del, Jim, it is sad how the Liberal Democrats just
don't seem to get it. What's also sad is how
the "party leadership" also doesn't get it.

They can't seem to exist unless there's division,
and victims. Why do you think we no longer are
"Americans"? We're Mexican-Americans, Black-Americans, Asian-Americans, Latino-Americans, Indian-Americans, Irish-Americans, Catholic-Americans, on and on and on. They have systematically categorized and pigeon holed us all into nice neat little boxes they can later cherry pick for whatever victims they need. An
incredible speech was made at the Democratic Convention by a young American named Obama who's
now a Senator. In his own words "there are only
Americans". They still do not get it. It's all about the paranoid victim-hood and now babbling
nonsense about the 1930's and throw in a little
conspiracy regarding the elections. The People,
Us, have made our voices heard and they're fuming
about it; ignorant, dumb, right wing religious freaks, blah, blah, blah is their response. Un-friggin-believable.

Let's see my mother is Mexican, my father is Scottish and German so, following their line of logic, that would make me a Scottish-German-Mexican-American. Gee, maybe there are more
of us with the hypens who can claim victim-hood and demand our rights and a subsidized goverment
handout because we're victims all at the expense
of the taxpayers?

To that I say BS, I'm an American {Period}

Jim

Chrish,
So well said. I'm pretty much "European American" (Scotch, English, German, Hungarian). My fiance is Irish, Cherokee, African American. But really she's just American. I guess since I voted for Bush I must really hate her deep down inside. Plus she's Catholic, but she also believes in a "women's right to choose". I disagee with her on that point. Wait, I mean I have to have her thrown in jail with the Dixie Chicks. I also must hate two of my brothers and some of the people I had a beer with last night.
It's so sad.
I hate those frickin' hyphenated labels.

-Proud American

Jim

Questions from the stupid right: (me)


How come the market has gone up so much the past few days?

When do we start bombing Canada and Cuba?

How did those 337,000 jobs come about last month?

Where's Michael Moore?

What monastery did George Soros join? He said he was going to if Bush won.

Jeff

The raging comments on what liberals and conservatives get or don't get isn't going anywhere. There are fair complaints on both sides, but calls for unity and one America will not make it so.

Quick answers to your questions Jim, again I implore you to dig deeper!

"How come the market has gone up so much the past few days?"

There's no question that Bush and Republicans are good for business, particularly big business. There's also no question that a quick result from the Presidential election was going to boost markets, no matter who won. What's the big deal here? Do you really think that all these companies are worth billions more because Bush got re-elected? It's speculative frenzy... people will start focusing back on earnings reports again soon enough.

So while your stocks are worth more, what do you say to your dollar being worth less? If your stock gained 5% and your currency fell 5%, did you make any money? Warren Buffett bought currencies for the first time EVER within the last two years. He also said that Bush's tax cuts were stupid. That's from the 2nd richest man in the world... and the only one at the top who did it through investing.

"How did those 337,000 jobs come about last month?"

Some news for you about economics here. First, it is estimated that 150,000 jobs were created from work as a result of needing to clean up after the hurricanes. That's from construction and temps. Think Jim, someone needs to clean up all that massive damage...

That leaves us with another 180,000 jobs to account for. Fact is that our working population is growing at 140,000 every single month! That's right, we need 140,000 new jobs to keep even. Bush PROMISED us 300,000+ new jobs every month from his tax cuts. Do you remember that outrageous number they gave us at the beginning of the year? Not even close.

That my friend is a reality check. There is no partisanship at work here... this is just hard economic analysis. I may be wrong and only time will tell, but one thing is for sure. The government sure is not going to tell you the truth. They never have... and Bush has only increased the lying. Things are just peachy in Iraq too...

rodi

Answers to Jim's dumb and not-so-dumb questions:

Q)How come the market has gone up so much the past few days?

A) If you actually had a career in the financial markets, you'd know that markets do not like uncertainty. The uptick in the Dow is an institutional reaction (that means pension plans and large investors, not Etrade little guys) to the fact that the election was settled in a timely manner.

In case you didn't notice, the US dollar has tanked around world markets since the election (the Canadian dollar is at a 16 year high) This actually has more to do with the world's real reaction to a Bush victory.

Q)When do we start bombing Canada and Cuba?

A)After Fallujah has no civilians left to vote in a january election. They're all dead

Q)How did those 337,000 jobs come about last month?

A) Once again, do you work in the industry? If not, perhaps you should visit CBS Marketwatch.com for some answers. In a nutshell, the overall jobs market has been underperforming for 4 years. Secondly, the reports you see are based on seasonal adjustments in construction and other industries that have to do with events and market trends. It has little or no bearing on the 250,0000 unemployed people in Ohio that apparently like watching soap operas instead of trying to understand why tax cuts mostly benefit people that will never have to worry about being unemployed.

Q)Where's Michael Moore?

A) Well, this happens to be an intelligent question. Proof that all us anti-Bush people are not "liberal leftists". I guess you could say that his movie forced people in the red states to think. Which was obviuously too much hard work. Voting for Bush is much easier.

Q)What monastery did George Soros join? He said he was going to if Bush won.

A)Most Bush supporters in the heartland and deep south would have no idea who George Soros is so this question is irrelevant.

rodi

Jeff said:
>this is just hard economic analysis. I may be wrong and only time will tell, but one thing is for sure. The government sure is not going to tell you the truth. They never have... and Bush has only increased the lying. Things are just peachy in Iraq too...

Jeff:

Well put. You are not wrong. Could you imagine if plumbers performed heart surgery? That's about the same as people like Jim who obviously have absolutely no knowledge of the financial markets making comments like he does.

If any of you think we are just rambling off partisanship rhetoric, try reading David Corn's book "The lies of George W Bush" In layman's terms, that book compares and contrasts what he promised and said as he went along versus what the actual numbers projected (and that is from his own economic staff)

And did any of you catch today's headline?
In Canada it says "Bush says we must not back off now" Nothing like a blank check to piss off any remaining nations in the world that don't want to insult me when they see my US passport in their country.

delal

And on and on and on...

While the lib/dem rhetoric continues... we Republicans are changng the country, the world for the good.

So let us allow the fringe liberal weenies to continue with their dribble, their crying, their whining while we do what is needed and right.

For you libs/dems - continue with the same tactics that have made you fail.

If you want to change the system... well you'll have another chance in four years.

My advice - change your ways because it hasn't worked for some time and won't in four years.

It's your choice...

The majority of Americans have spoken with this election - we back President Bush 100%.

Now what...

Jeff

Thanks Rodi. Actually what I said about earning in the stock market and losing in the dollar isn't accurate, since it sure isn't balanced. How many Americans own as much in stocks as they do in dollars? That's right, the dollar is the stock of the big corporation called the U.S.A. and it is going down into the toilet.

Exactly a reflection of what foreigners think of the quality of our country and the people managing... what part of record deficit do the Bushies not understand? How can that be called conservative? But here's what's even worse... there's no end in sight.

Jim

Once again the "conservative" is said to have "absolutely no knowledge".

And the same person cites "Farenheit 9/11" as a movie that should make people think, but for people in the red states it's too hard. This despite the fact that Farenheit is filled with lies after lies. And Republicans are the ones that are called stupid. You guys need to find another Bill Clinton and fast. Not that I think he's the greatest but at least he was way more positive than any of the other Dems out there. His "wife" isn't the answer but she's setting up her votes to look like a moderate.

delal

ALL...

Here's your boy 'Senor Clinton' explaining why the dems lost at the NY Hilton...

http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/31816.htm

"Billary for President in 2008"

I'm so giddy... I just can't wait!

rodi

Jim:
You have now said something I agree with 1000%
And since I think insulting each other back and forth is childish, let me elaborate on where we have common ground.

I completely agree with you that the Dems need to find someone with the intelligence and charisma of Clinton. As I have said before, I am not a democrat. I have voted as an independent since I was legal voting age. I do think one major difference between red and blue is that red staters are very solidly entrenched as Republicans. They rarely, if ever, cross over.
I firmly believe that this has to do with the difference in moral values. This is not an insult, it's just a fact that Californians, New Yorkers and pockets of others tend to collectively place less value in religion and morality. Not because they don't go to church; just by virtue of the greater degree of diversity within the population.

Along comes a candidate once a generation that can change that. FDR, JFK, Clinton. Yes, it's very hard to find someone that can even steer hard line GOP supporters. And I do NOT think Kerry had the all the answers. But the situation is much harder than what Clinton inherited in terms of foreign policy. I'm not even certain Clinton could figure out how to resolve Iraq at this point.

There is another link to an article written by Ariana Huffington somewhere else on this site. For those Dem supporters, I implore you to read it because Jim is correct; we need another Clinton in order for the Democratic party to regain equality with the GOP. The link is :
http://www.democracyforamerica.com/features/2004/11/04/anatomy_of_a_crushing_political_defeat.php

Now that I agreed with you, I'm sorry but I still can not leave this one alone:

Re: Michael Moore. To show you I’m not being a
whiny dem/lib like Delia insists we all are let me say this: When I read Stupid White Men I also thought it was entertainment, not serious political thought. So I take everything he does with a grain of salt.

I will never deny that I do not know his real motives; every time I see him on TV he sure seems to come off as a flake. But the one thing that EVERY SINGLE BUSH SUPPORTER does is to IMMEDIATELY dismiss Far911 as lies. No argument; no debate, no intelligent rebuttal to even back up with facts what part of the movie is lies.
Since most of us on this forum are intelligent, I would like to ask you to please provide me with a FACT-BASED argument of what scenes in the movie are lies.

If anything, the movie doesn't have enough time to elaborate on issues like The Carlisle Group. Or the fact that Bush 1 is the only ex-president in history to take advantage of his right to read CIA/FBI briefing reports EVERY DAY FOR LIFE. Forget the name calling; that part is dumb and serves no purpose. I can't prove if the interviews were staged or not so I'll even give you the benefit of the doubt on that.
But the issues about the Saudis are NOT LIES. I can recommend 3 or 4 non partisan factual books that will explain the US government’s REAL relation with them. And it goes back way before the Bush family so they are not fully to blame. But because they have more of a vested financial interest than any other US president in history, that is why the entire middle east agenda is so important to them.

"Freedom" is a nice easy excuse to make it seem legitimate. Did you know that Canada has something called the "oil sands?" In Northern Alberta, we have triple the amount of oil than the ENTIRE reserves of Saudi Arabia, but is in the form of bitumen and much costlier to process than crude oil. But the point is: the agenda is rooted in money with a smattering of democratic ideals. You will not change my opinion on that.

rodi

delal:

I wish your posts could be a tad more like jim's
in the sense that he does not come off as an 8 year old bragging about how Bush won

Rather, he tries to make intelligent arguments that can lead to debate that helps us all find common ground.

I've seen so many people argue the need to work together or to stand above the derision and act like Americans. If the GOP is truly concerned about restoring unity (and I will even give Bush about a year to show me he is), please, plaese, please:

STOP calling us all "whiny, dem/libs, yadda yadda yadda" I am disappointed but as an advocate of knowing the facts and then deciding, I would rather continue to debate issues that serve a purpose for the better of all Americans.

Name calling will not achieve this.

Jeff

Jim, I'm really disappointed. I answered all your questions to the best of my knowledge and you can't even acknowledge these fallacies, particularly since it shows that Bush isn't remotely conservative when it comes to money. You cheered the jobs report and you cheered the stock market going up, connecting them to Bush, conveniently ignoring of course the effect of hurricanes, the fact that we need 150,000 jobs every month just to stay even and that the dollar is dropping like a rock.

Instead you go back to Fahrenheit 9/11. Who cares about that stupid movie? I'm actually concerned with people getting killed, the President's lies, and our country in the state of fiscal insanity. Despite the jobs number, unemployment actually rose... figure out why. The average work week is hovering at 33.7 hours... do you really think any of these small businesses (not the fake ones that Bush always includes in his stats) that are flush with Bush tax cuts are interested in hiring if their employees aren't even busy?

For once, it would be nice if you didn't answer Fahrenheit when you don't have any rebuttal. You asked the questions and I respected you enough to answer. There's no partisanship working here... just real numbers.

Jim

Jeff,

It's true we need more jobs all the time, because our populations is growing. Whether or not your exact numbers are accurate I don't know and won't argue it. My point is Bush gets blamed for the economy, so shouldn't he get credit when there is good news. Frankly I think that presidents in general get way too much credit and too much blame for the economy, which in a free market is mostly cyclical. I'm not saying they have no control, but I think it's overstated.
Regarding Farenheit, it wasn't directed at you, Jeff. Stop thinking everything is. I did bring up MM, but rodi mentioned the movie saying that "I guess you could say that his movie forced people in the red states to think. Which was obviuously too much hard work. Voting for Bush is much easier." I can't tell you how many people on the left take that movie as gospel. I hear them quote it on news talk shows all the time. It's not usually the hosts, it's those that get interviewed in the audience. Republicans get called dumb so many times by Democrats, it gets almost silly. But how many millions of left leaning people believe Moore's movie completely. I saw it before I denounced it. I keep spelling Fahrenheit wrong, sorry. Here's a link to the lies Rodi. Also check out the other film, Fahrenhype 9/11 http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm

Gotta run.

ebg

delal: Please refrain from gloating, if you possibly can. It is unseemly.

delal

Intelligence???

I'm not here to argue issues - that would be a waste of my time.

If you go through my posts - my #1 theme has been how you guys got it all wrong. The assumptions you make prove that you really don't have any idea as to why things are the way they are...

As far as gloating... why the hell not when one considers the abuse you throw at our President and America!

You better believe I'm having a good time at your expense! Months back I use to get into the minutiae of this site including trading barbs with Luke...

The effort has less and less value as we find out that your numbers are puny and will continue to dwindle.

Hopefully the dems will start moving towards the middle - more mainstream and start stripping away the liberal insanity that has driven it to the point of nearly no return.

Till then - expatsagainstbush has no value except for entertainment...

I VOTE FOR EXPATSFORBILLARY!

Mark my words - if this site continues it will eventually be renamed to the above because that is and was always the plan of the...

CLINTONISTAS!

ALL REMEMBER YOU HEARD IT FROM ME!

Anyone want to make a wager? hehehe...

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