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November 03, 2004

Comments

Luke

Josh Marshall said the same thing I did, but a lot better.
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2004_10_31.php#003927

Maryann

Count me in. Had a few hours to mope around, and now I'm thinking about how we keep this momentum going forward to take back the country.

For my part, I work in the music industry and at the moment am working on a project for aid to Sudan. I'll be looking for opportunities to use the contacts and expertise I gain through this toward our cause. Any input from like-minded posters is welcome.

Thanks for your inspiring words everybody. All is not lost!

Sarah Forrester

I know I've not posted that much over the last couple months, but I've lurked heavily, even as I was feeling the outrage fatigue. I'd like to take this opportunity to say thanks to Luke, for starting this site, for taking the time to try and do something good, and for being an inspiration to me to get off my ass and go to my first (and second) ever protests. You totally rock. Let's have a period of mourning, and then let's continue on. After all, we're still Expats Against Bush.

Larry

I'm going to take up UK citizenship. Then I'll vote against warmonger 2 next year.

delal

Why doesn't Luke's closing statement surprise me...

That's the reason why you libs/dems are so fucked up!

You still don't get it!

Some things won't change...

And that's not a bad thing!

I say - rename site...

expatsforhillary.net

My first prediction came true - one I stated a long time ago...

BUSH WON!

Now for my second prediction...

Hillary will be the candidate in 08'...

Again the libs/dems will crash & burn!

You guys are still be led by the nose by the 'Clintonistas'...

Don't believe me?

Well - I can wait - can you?

Hillary for President!

Luke

Phew - well at least you guys aren't too busy swilling champagne to pop round and have a few digs.

delal

More on attitude...

Do you guys realize that it isn't about you trying to save America... it has everything to do with maybe America having no need for you!

Did you see the popular vote count? Did you notice the seats lost in Congress by the dems?

What part of the America you so willingly bash - actually wants anything to do with you?

Can't you see the writing on the wall?

Luke your response is the REASON why you libs/dems have seen the best of your days.

Until dems realize what I'm trying to say - until dems find a real core mentality that transcends 'real folks in America' - the likes of you will continue to diminish.

Your numbers are shrinking and will continue to shrink until you find your way again without the hate and vitriol you've so openly exhibited in the past two elections.

Sit back - heed my words and be honest with yourselves...

Of course you can shoot back a 'hey fuck you delal' and...

That's okay..

Just - here we go again!

delal

Hey Luke...

I'm actually going out now to celebrate!

I'm currently in Alabama (business) - a state which Bush won and just got through a full day so...

Let the partying begin!

Here's one for the expatsagainstbush!

Love ya!

Del

Jim

You know Del I came here to wish Luke good luck and congratulate him on a spirited fight. Although I disagree with his views, I admire his passion for his cause. But then he had to end it with "Fuck him. Let's get organized." Del, they don't get it that running on a platform of hate doesn't win. They still don't see it from the other comments I've seen. It's still just "get Bush at all costs." Amazing. Nice introspection.

Jeff

A platform of hate? Neither side has a monopoly on that Jim, I would ask that you look in the mirror to see if your passion overstepped the bounds of decency. If you recall, I apologized to you when I did so a few months ago... it wasn't easy, but it was the right thing to do. You responded with an apology of your own, which I felt was easy to do after I made the first move, but I appreciated nevertheless.

Consider your pal Delal... if you think that Luke is too bitter, do you think that running around gloating, saying that America wants no part of you when 48% voted for Kerry is going to help us become the United States again? When the two states that suffered the most from 9/11, New York and New Jersey voted for Kerry? If I'm not mistaken, your home state of Michigan voted for Kerry as well.

I for one am not that distraught over Bush's re-election, I see many lights at the end of the tunnel. For one, Bush no longer needs to worry about getting re-elected. Maybe he'll do more of what's good for the country than what's good for keeping his job.

The second thing is that, frankly, he doesn't have the same choices that he did in the beginning. 51% of the votes will not help him solve Iraq, will not help him reduce the deficit, will not help him save social security, and will not create more jobs. Furthermore, Bush is in no position to wage pre-emptive war on any more dictators, no matter what the rationale because we simply don't have the resources.

So, even though I disagree with the Republicans and with Bush, I still love my country and I hope that he succeeds and has learned from his mistakes. If he fails, we're all screwed.

j.j.

WUAHAHAHAHAHA! Hilarious, the people who are gonna get fucked the most by Bush's policies are the one's who support him the most - namely those lower-income, white conservatives who watch NASCAR and run the confederate flag (Howard Dean's words). Hey, ban all those homosexuals and metrosexuals, that seems to be the priority, not the huge deficit or shitty jobs. Hope those all-important "morals" provide them with health care and decent jobs, cause Bush isn't going to provide either.
AAAAAHAHAHAHAHA! Talk about shooting themselves in the foot! Here I am fighting for their benefits, but they won't have it! Fine, I got health insurance, I got a good job, I'm to old to be drafted. Have fun, all you "positive" Republicans.
Where is that damn tax-refund?

Simon

This is a truly awful result for the world as we face four more years of a rogue superpower in the world. Before you shake an American by the hand, ask him how he voted.

Simon, London

John Thompson, UK

What's really saddening from the result of this election, and the exit polls about voters motives is how much fundamentalist religion influenced this vote. The USA now stands right alongside those Islamic fundamentalist nations many of whom it regards as "evil". I am relieved to live in a country where democratic secular values are not smothered by religious dogma.

jj

well said, John. I'll come join you, I think. At least I can "not pray" in peace over there and not be judged for it.

jj

don't know who wrote this, but he/she has a point.

"i still believe that the gay rights
> movement is slowly
> >trodding ahead, but did we really think there
> wouldn't be a backlash? how
> >long did it take for black people to get the right
> to vote? for women? how
> >can you expect things to change if you huddle in a
> corner, surrounded by
> >people who agree with you and complain together?"

remember all those people in the south in the 60's that were attacking blacks for wanting the same rights as whites? remember Johnson sending out the national guard? maybe one day, gays can walk around without being hated for no reason, so let's just wait until the Coburns and Delays of this world die off and we get some less hateful people in the Senate.
(btw, I am straight and don't even know any gays.)

Jim

Jeff,
Really I wasn't thinking of you as one of the hateful ones. Isn't the title of this blog in itself, negative? Isn't this all about bashing Bush? That seems pretty negative to me. For two years people have been burning photos and stuffed resemblences of Bush. That's not negative? This may not refer to you specifically, Jeff. I wasn't thinking of you.

You'd think the hate would end. I didn't make up the fact that not only did the President win, but the Dems lost more seats in the senate. Has anybody thought why?

Yes, my state is very Democratic. Big deal. The state voted for Kerry by a very narrow margin.

For those who say they will leave the country, there are planes leaving every hour for Europe, Asia and south America. You probably don't want to go to Australia, because they re-elected that war monger John Howard. Those Australians must be stupid too, right? There are plenty of people moving in to take your place. Please don't make empty promises. It gets our hopes up.

Oh, regarding another pre-emptive war - sometimes when countries know you're willing to go to war, you don't have to. Get ready, we're invading Europe next. Here it comes. When is that draft coming that Kerry promised Bush would instate? Politics of fear, maybe?

Peace out.


Chrish

For what it's worth I do extend my condolences to you guys. I know you all put your hearts, bodies,
time, and effort into getting a change in the
presidency and presenting your positions and arguments. Despite the outcome you really should
all be damned proud of what you did accomplish:
- Coalescesed Expats from around the world; no
easy task.
- Organized and implemented many programs for
Expats to become aware of the issues, how and where to register.
- Participated in events, demonstrations and maintained some sense of civility.
- Weathered the storm of criticism, hatred, and
rejection from many who came into this site during
your early days.
- Established a forum where all of you including those of us who disagreed could continue discussing, debating, and arguing. As well as
make announcements of upcoming events.
- Organized with other groups to attend events
such as speeches, debates during the early primaries.

Do I need to go on? My God, you guys did an incredible job in getting people out, aware, and involved.

I truly applaud and salute your incredible efforts
and, for my part, have gained a deep respect and regard for you all. Yes, I disagree with some of your positions but, I also agree with many of your positions.

More importantly, I completely disagree and reject
this "pity party" and negativity you're all engaging in. Come on, snap out of it. Are you
really going to crawl away with your tails between your legs and disappear.

It isn't, by any stretch of the imagination, over
its only just begun. Just because you lost this
election does not mean you do not have a voice or
a say in the future of Our country. We all have
a voice and it's up to all of us to let Our politicians including the President know by writing, emailing, faxing, demonstrations or whatever whether we agree or disagree with what he or they are doing.

This does not mean that now that it's all over we can all sit down, kick back, continue watching those assinine programs on the telly and foolishly believe that those politicians can do whatever the hell they want! Their power is not
unlimited. We have the power not them.

So how about losing the negativity, the cussing, the depressing attitude, and the little pity party you're all having and continue doing what you've been doing; Speak Out?

It is, by no means, over and done with there's
still much to do, still issues that need to be addressed and made right and the voices to speak out about those issues should not allow themselves to be silenced.

Gather together at a local pub, have a few pints,
cry over this loss, then get your arses back into the fray.

Jim

Isn't that what is great about a democracy? There is always another day. We had 8 years of a Democratic President, now we'll have 8 years of a Republican President. In neither case were people from the other party kicked out of Washington or Texas or Arkansas. The legislature is still fairly split, even if the Republicans do have small majorities. We didn't take the other party out back and shoot them. This country, this world, needs everyone's ideas. But for those who have stated they want to go - fine. I certainly wouldn't force you to stay. Give up if that's what you think is best. There are plenty still moving in to take your place. I wonder why.

I'm wondering what monastery George Soros is entering this week. He said he would if Kerry lost.

Maryann

This is not a "pity party". This is genuine sadness and despair over the absolute wreckage this Administration is, and will continue to, subject our nation to. You don't seem to understand this -- we love America. We are not here poking fun at people because we think we're elitist. We are expressing heartfelt concern while we watch our homeland turn into an unrecognizable place that seems to have turned its back on everything the country once valued. If I pity anything, it's the environment. It's civil liberties. It's the Constitution. It's reproductive rights. It's fiscal sanity. It's all the people that died needlessly in Iraq, both American and Iraqi. I do not pity myself, but I'm frustrated and angry that so many people have chosen to ignore the job the Administration has done and focus on the fact that Bush claims to be a churchgoer, or Kerry is from Massachusets, which somehow makes him dangerous.

I don't think these people won because they reflect America better, I think they won because Americans are so uninformed and ill-educated and fundamentalist that they have lost the plot altogether. That is depressing as shit.

And I really don't see how we can ever get the country back on track, whatever is left of it at the end of the next four years.

This sums up the cause of our despair pretty handily:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/04/opinion/04dowd.html?hp

I believe this Administration is evil, corrupt, greedy, self-serving and ruthless. I believe they have no respect whatsoever for Americans, except the millionaires and giant corporations that line their pockets. I am disgusted with them all. You can rant all that crap about "hatred" but they EARNED it. It's like saying people who resisted the Nazis were too focused on hate. Of course they were, they were fighting a detestable group of psychos. I'm not accusing the Bush Co. of committing a holocaust, but I do believe they are a bunch of evil nutcases out to destroy our country.

Chrish

Maryann, I can respect your opinion on "the absolute wreckage this Administration is, and will continue to, subject our nation to." along with all of your other statements but, it's obviously not an opinion that is agreed to
by everyone. It is, like mine, just your
opinion. Doesn't mean your right and everyone else is wrong or vice versa.

I can well understand and sympathize with the sadness, despair, frustration, and anger but,
with the comments of "tear up my passport", "renounce my citizenship", "F__K Him",
on and on and on it not only sounds like a pity party but also sounds like a temper tantrum. People who have given up, surrendered with a whole
lot of grumbling.

You all want everyone to listen, respect, and consider your opinions, viewpoints, beliefs, values, ideas, and thoughts but, woe to anyone
who disagrees with you. You want dialoge but,
only one way; your way. When many disagree with you then they're religious freaks, dopes, idiots,
and morons as if your opinion, ideas, thoughts and your's alone are the only ones that matter.

Both sides fought hard and fiercly during this campaign, the election has happened and now you're
calling those of us who disagree names?

I read such statments as "Fuck him", "Fuck this
country", "I'm tearing up my passport", "I'm throwing away my US citizenship and becoming a citizen of another country", how dare you. Just who the hell do you people think you are? Do you honestly believe you are the only ones in this country whose vote should count and everyone else should be ignored just because they disagree with you?

You talk about love of this country, and how great being a Democracy is but, condemn everyone
just because they didn't vote your way?

Get off your high horse.

Not only is this a pity party but, from what I'm reading and seeing here it's also some sorry sore losers.

Maybe you should all become citizens of another country and tear up your passports. What will you do when things don't go your way in your country of choice? Renounce your citizenship of that country, tear up your passport, and go become a citizen of another country?

You condemn and accuse all of us for having committed some kind of foul deed for voting for Bush?

Has it ever occurred to any of you or others in the Democratic Party including the leadership that maybe just maybe there are a lot of us Democrats who are in complete disagreement and reject where the Democratic Party has gone and
is going to? That maybe, just maybe the Democratic Party no longer reflect Our beliefs, opinions, nor ideals? That it no longer represents Us?

I am a registered Democrat and I voted to keep Bush in office. I, along with others, reject and disagree with the party leadership, the extremist Liberals, and so-called elitists and where they've
dragged Our Party to.

Not only do We reject their positions but, We are going to take Our Party back and bring it back to
the likes of JFK. The Party that produced "Ask not what your country can do for you rather ask what you can do for your country." has become a party of whiners, cry babies, no common sense, hate mongers who have taken divisiness to a very
deceitful level. The concepts of personal responsibility, and accountability no longer have a place in my party. This country was not founded on the principles of entitlements, hand outs, and a gimme mentality it was founded on the principles of freedom and that went hand in hand with hard work, personal responsibility, accountability, and faith. The Democratic Party no longer emodies those founding principles. But,
Maryann that's just my opinion but, shared by many others and the number is growing... We can
and we will take back our party from the extremists liberals who've taken it over...

But, that's just Our opinion.

"We are not here poking fun at people because we think we're elitist...

...I think they won because Americans are so uninformed and ill-educated "

callen

Expatriate is not a problem. Good for Americans to get out a bit. The concept of home is out of date. WE BELONG IN THE WORLD nations are old fashioned constructs. Live where you want. Be Dual or Triple citizens and Vote for the US Pres and vote local as well. Lets grow a European-US Voting population. Europeans or others SHOULD vote for the US President but live in a more civilised place until things change. Globalisation and out-sourcing of the US VOTE.

Chrish

Or maybe {no name} Americans have exercised a little common sense and reason?

Again Callen, does that mean I can apply to whatever government in whichever country you
live in for health care, unemployment, or whatever other entitlements they have and you'll
happily pay for me with your taxes?

Where do I apply?

Jeff

Jim, one problem that you don't address is for those of us who are not particularly liberal or conservative, but who believe Bush is a liar and see him squandering world opinion at no benefit to our country. As I have said time and time again, nominate a trustworthy Republican candidate and that person would get my vote!

I appreciate you saying that you're not thinking of me... really I do, it means that I've finally convinced you that not all Kerry supporters are far left crazies. In fact, I'm probably more conservative than liberal, even though that may be hard to believe. Look at the goddamn deficit! I'm also not into bashing Bush for the sake of bashing Bush... still haven't seen Fahrenheit, still don't care.

But the election results don't change that most of the time what the President says to us, is either misleading or simply not true. You have often said politicians and presidents lie all the time... I happily agree, but does that mean that sort of behavior should be excused? This is not to say that Kerry didn't lie either, he did many times and I held it against him.

But Bush did it in such a fashion that he obviously enraged half the country and most of the rest of the world. It doesn't say much for the man to win 50% of the American vote and lose 80% of the world vote. Half of his job is to deal with foreigners, especially when he goes out invading other countries.

So the question is still on the table, for you and Chrish (and I'm still waiting Chrish, for your response on that PDF I referenced for you). I feel strongly that you guys saw those lies as clearly as I did, but let it slide for the greater good of the country up to the election. But I really hope that you don't feel overly victorious. Bush SHOULD have won 60% of the vote, including my vote. Any war time president should. I think the fact that he needed to spend all his time keeping his job instead of doing his job... speaks volumes.

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