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January 04, 2005




Well, ain't that the S__t's!! While I have,
since discovering your site, been one of those who disagreed with many of your positions I never, once, faltered in full support of your freedom to make your statements known. A damn fine job you've done; real damn fine job!!

Quite honestly, I had a feeling this site would soon be set aside for something much bigger than you probably really anticipated
and Good For You.

Perhaps, next time, I will be standing with you in support of who runs next. That, of course, depends upon the message that is going to be delivered. I'm hoping it isn't going to be another "Anybody but" thing which you appear to have come to that realization.

Your statement of "We of the Anyone But Bush brigade were so focused on getting Bush out that we forgot to tell people what we were going to replace him with. We lost the initiative trying to tell people what we were against rather than what we stood for." about sums it all up.

But, that's all water under the brige and tomorrow will bring another day.

You should feel very proud of what you've done, no doubt about that. I will miss the interaction with such people as Sarah, Maryann, JJ, Jeff, Rodi, and those who have come and gone as well as my "cohorts" Jim, and Good Ol' Del. While we have disagreed and on some occassions disagreed with much emphasis I have always held you all in high regard and the deepest respect; even if you were all wrong, :o) , just kidding.

I wish you, Luke and all Expats the very best of luck, triumphs, and success.

Luke, thanks so very much for this site and the opportunity to express my opinions, thoughts, and feelings as well as the opportunity to read, understand, and learn from the individuals who've posted on this site. Thank you all.....
PS: Are you sure you don't want to reconsider your decision Luke? Best of luck to you..



I second everything that Chrish said. While I understand that it's probably beating a dead horse to continue the site under the circumstances, I very much enjoy reading and arguing with the regulars.

Like Chrish, I may not agree with a lot of opinions, but the fact that this forum has remained (mostly) a civilized place for all of us to express WHY we justify our thoughts, I consider it a whopping success.

Is there some way those of us that have been posting regularly could contribute in some format on your DA-UK site? (even though I live in canada?) Or, better yet, couuld you tell the dummies at DA-Canada how to improve their site? It really sucks most of the time.

I also hope you can reconsider or offer us some sort of alternative. Yeah, there's hundreds of other blog sites. Many of them also suck and the people who post are so childish or radical, it's not worth trying to have an educated discussion. If not, thanks for the time and effort you ahve put into the site

And Chrish, Jim, jj, Del, maryann, et al:
I'd like to keep in touch with you guys; maybe we can find a similar site to continue onwards. Lord knows we won't run out of topics until at least 2008

Email me directly anytime at

PS - If I wasn't HTML illiterate, I'd continue the site myself (perhaps with a different name)
The problem is I'm young enough to know the basics of today's computer-speak, but too old to have the ambition it takes to master website maintenance. I'll leave that to the tech-saavy

Regards from Super Freezing Canada

Have fun Luke


What Rodi said, absolutely Luke!! How about it can you give any advice on how
say I or Rodi or some other insane person
could do what you have, so admirably, done?

How about Rodi's suggestion that he take over the site with perhaps an occasional "Post for Thought" from you? He is an Expat after all.

Could you also provide us with at least 10 years notice of when this site is shutting down? :o) Hey, its worth a shot.

How about this Luke, you know how they're always having those "Look Back over the years" kinda thing on the Telly? How about
bringing back some of your early days of this site so those who have recently joined can read some of the ravings of the
"Lunatic fringe" or, as some would call them, the real deal, hard core, ultra, Right Wingers?

Rodi, would really like to stay in touch with everyone, if for no other reason, than to explain to you the "error of your ways"..
LOL!!! ;o)

Damn, I am really going to miss reading the posts of everyone here; Luke, maryann, miriamg, jj, Jeff, Rodi, Sarah, Jim, Del, and other's who have gone their way...
Thank you all for the posts, the debates, discussions, the interchange, and, believe it or not, the learning experience. I have learned much from all of you. Oh well....



I also consider the posts a learning experience. Most good sites usually have a few dozen or so regular posters and a lot of lurkers. What I enjoy most is being able to share my viewpoints while listening to the views of others. Listening to others leads to increased tolerance for all and if more Americans would simply learn to be more tolerant, it might improve the nation drastically.

You (and Jim and Del) have earned my utmost respect because you always respect all the non-Bush opinions enough to at least check out the links, books, articles and other stuff that we use to back up our comments.

The site has allowed me to let off an immense amount of steam and it's hilarious when I raed a post from Jeff or Maryann or jj that could have come right out my mouth. My Canadian wife doesn't understand the passion that American politics elicits from all of us, since I currently live in another country. But that's why this site is so important to me, bringing together so many that share an equal passion about so many issues that affect every American around the world.

Education never ends. That's why I read so many non fiction books about political and social events. Those that refuse to listen are doomed to a life of ignorance. sadly, I saw an awful lot of those types on my recent Florida vacation. I can only hope that Luke's message gets through. I am even kind of a hypocrite because I have no political affiliation on my California voter registration and have never claimed to call myself a true Democrat. But I was so appalled but what I read and saw over the first 4 Bush years that I probably would have even supported Howard Dean.

(PS - One last recommendation to all about an excellent work of fiction:
"The Plot Against America" by Pulitzer Prize winner Philip Roth. It's a story about what might have happened had Charles Lindbergh defeated FDR in 1940 and alligned with Hitler instead of the Allies. Awesome piece of writing)

One other note of interest: Did any of you guys who are on Kerry's website mailing list get his message today? Senator Boxer, the California Democrat, has officially challenged the certification of electoral votes, which means by law, each member of Congress gets to speak for 2 minutes in light of the alleged voter fraud in Ohio. It doesn't mean much other than to force the issue to be addressed for future elections and it's only happened 1 other time (in the 1800's, when Harrison defeated Tilden)

Anyway, Kerry says he wants no part of it but at the same time asks us all to continue to make strides towards voting issues that threaten the strength of our system. Sounds kind of wishy washy to me. yeah, I wish that cloned cat could have been Clinton because I think a candidate like him comes around about 3 times in every millennium (ie: FDR, JFK and Billyboy)

And even if the nation wasn't so divided, America has clearly demonstrated that we have still not made enough social progress to ever elect a woman, Jew, African-American, Asian or any other candidate that might challenge the status quo that revolves around money, political lobbies and the small percentage of wealthy Americans that actually control the masses. Maybe some day in my lifetime it may happen, but I'd doubt it.


Well - all good things must come to an end! This was always a fun site to stop by and abuse or be abused...

Luke - luck to you! To everyone that have exchanged taunts, ideas, insults and traded similar ideals...

Wishing you the very best!



I still say - change the site to:


And this site will again sprout a life of its own!

I can't help myself...




Stay tuned for anybodybutjeb.com

It's a great strategy.


Michael Moore, who sat next to Jimmy Carter at the DNC will be the Democratic Chairman.

Let's have him sit next to a former President, but then say we're distancing ourselves from him. Great strategy.

Better strategy than say having a convicted fraud like Ahmad Chalabi sit next to the President's wife during the State of the Union only to raid his offices only a few months later...


Huh?? Who won the election?


Good comeback... much better than trying to defend what is indefensible and moronic to boot. He should have a 65% approval rating and have won by that type of margin after proving that his way is the best way and getting the whole country and the rest of the world behind him.

Just keep forgiving the incompetence, have your AG be someone who couldn't figure out that Kerik couldn't obey immigration laws within his own house or avoid using 9/11 apartments for committing adultery.


Which is more important, Bush's victory in the election or a war that is spiralling out of control? The insurgency is obviously getting stronger, General Metz says that we're in no shape to hold an election and that huge areas of four provinces containing 1/2 of the population are unsafe. Rummy has dispatched General Luck (great name) to figure out what the hell is going wrong.

I'm glad Bush won... no one could save us from what's going to happen, so it might as well be the moron who created the mess.


Thanks for brightening up my day. :-) Still loving it.


Here's a little more great news to brighten up your day even more, Jim:

On the topic of American troops in Iraq, the other day I heard my buddies on NBC Nightly News report that since the Iraquis are nowhere near training an army that can safely support the country, the Pentagon now estimates that US troops will need to be in Iraq for

great job, W

(great quote, too.)
"Well, I think the Iraq situtaiion is going quite well, we're having an election, after all."

In response to Richard Gere's weird TV advertisement, "One Gaza soap factory worker interviewed by Reuters, Manar an-Najar, was quoted saying: "I don't even know who the candidates are other than Abu Mazen, let alone this Gere. We don't need the Americans' intervention. We know who to elect. Not like them – they elected a moron."


at this rate, we could end up being in Korea, Japan and Germany for 5 more years too.

At this rate, we could suffer so many casualties and run so far out of money that we lose after being forced to turn tail and run.


More good news. Just heard that the government is considering (read: is already planning) the use of El Salvador-style death squads in Iraq.
So we can look forward to this kind of thing... (Source: The UN Truth Commission on El Salvador.)

"..the soldiers reassembled the entire population in the square. They separated the men from the women and children and locked everyone up in different groups in the church, the convent and various houses... they proceeded to interrogate, torture and execute the men in various locations. Around noon, they began taking the women in groups, separating them from their children and machine-gunning them. Finally, they killed the children. A group of children who had been locked in the convent were machine-gunned through the windows. After exterminating the entire population, the soldiers set fire to the buildings."

..as just one teeny example. I'm sure everyone has their own personal favorite stories from that era, such as the murder of Archbishop Romero. And remember the nuns who were raped & killed?

"During 1982 and 1983, approximately 8,000 civilians a year were being killed by government forces. Although the figure is less than in 1980 and 1981, targeted executions as well as indiscriminate killings nonetheless remained the policy of the military and internal security forces, part of what Professor William Stanley of the University of New Mexico has described as a "strategy of mass murder" designed to terrorize the civilian population as well as opponents of the government." (Source: US Immigration and Naturalization Service)

Let freedom ring.

On that note, I leave you all to enjoy the next four years.


Personally I'm pulling for the nuclear option. Though I heard a Pakistani newspaper already reported that we used them, so what the hey!


Whoa Miriamg, don't pull your punches. You
bring up some very, very valid points. At
first I thought that that idea wasn't a bad one but, on retrospect I don't see how a repeat of those kinds of things could be of benefit.

The only thing I can see that might happen is that some terrorists would be hit but, would then start extending to innocent civilians. It would be passed onto whoever comes to power and be perpetuated. More death squads, more murders, more violence all sanctioned by the Government? Rationale (excuses and justifications) would be they're terrorists and insurgents instead of they're Communists. Didn't the policy of Our government essentially say it was better to have a dictator in power rather than a Communist one? Never mind if that dictatorship was murdering, raping, and brutalizing their people. Sadly, Our government turned a blinds eye to it. Couldn't the same thing occur here?

We would then truly be no better than them.
Bad idea, very bad idea.....

Jim, sorry but, {no name} has a point; Ahmad
Chalabi did sit next to the President's wife during the State of the Union and his
offices were raided a few months later...the
rest is history.

The DNC had a Moore and the RNC had a Chalabi. I don't see that there's anything to be really proud of except maybe, disagree or agree with Moore he was trying to make a difference even if his methods were rather transparent. Chalabi's, on the other hand, are more suspect and would seem to be more for personal gain; the new Hussein?

One has to look at what's going on over there in Iraq now and wonder "Does the President or his administration really know
what's going on and do they really have any
idea what to do?". I heard today that some new group in Iraq has put out a warning that something like 11 targets, all civilian, will be hit if they go out and vote. Yes, I know it should make everyone more determined but, at what cost and who's going to pay the cost? If its the Iraqi people than they have to be the ones to make that decision not us nor pressure from us. I can understand the need to have the elections BUT, are they really ready to have those elections or is this one of those "by hook or by crook" kind of things?
Would it really be so bad to wait until they've settled things down more? I wonder.


Sorry, should have put in some context. After all, the ends justify the means when it comes to the fight for freedom, right?
Well, here are the means:

From the UN Truth Commission on El Salvador:

"These death squads were partially home-grown... But crucial too was the activity of the United States government, specifically through the CIA. Testimony from Salvadoran army officials reveals that the CIA involved them in regular briefings, trained them in torture methods, provided a monthly budget and even funded little expenses like having black window panes installed on vans so that executions and the like could be carried out in secret. One former officer named Richard Castro described how, after training with the US, he had been told by his fellow officers of two towns that had been captured, each with a population of roughly three hundred. He was told that its inhabitants would be tortured for information, then executed. He later discovered that all six hundred had been killed. According to Rene Hurtado, who worked as an intelligence agent for the Treasury Police (one of three Salvadoran paramilitary forces) before fleeing to Minnesota, the US had taught interesting torture techniques to his colleagues at Army Staff headquarters. In particular favour among torture methods were electric shock, suffocation, mutilation, the tearing of skin from the body and sticking needles into the flesh. He also describes the use of US-manufactured torture equipment, including something that looked like a radio "with General Electric written on it". Witnesses describe how Colonel Nicolas Carranza, who took to death squad activity with unusual facility and enthusiasm, was funded by the CIA to the tune of $90,000 a year. The Atlacatl Battalion, created under US pressure, was responsible for some of the worst atrocities, including the murder of Jesuit priests and the El Mozote massacre."

Yet more of the means:
(From TheNew Yorker, Dec 1993, "The Truth of El Mozote":)
"Captain Salazar was shrugging off a guide's timid plea for the children's lives. "If we don't kill them now," he said angrily, "they'll just grow up to be guerrillas. We have to take care of the job now...
They slit some of the kids' throats, and many they hanged from the tree. All of us were crying now, but we were their prisoners -- there was nothing we could do. The soldiers kept telling us, 'You are guerrillas and this is justice. This is justice.' Finally, there were only three of us left. I watched them hang my brother. He was two years old. I could see I was going to be killed soon, and I thought it would be better to die running, so I ran. I slipped through the soldiers and dived into the bushes. They fired into the bushes, but none of their bullets hit me...
There was one in particular the soldiers talked about that evening (she is mentioned in the Tutela Legal report as well): a girl on La Cruz whom they had raped many times during the course of the afternoon, and through it all, while the other women of El Mozote had screamed and cried as if they had never had a man, this girl had sung hymns, strange evangelical songs, and she had kept right on singing, too, even after they had done what had to be done, and shot her in the chest."

No more.



With all respect, my point was that the Democratic strategy failed. I'm not nor did I ever defend Chalabi, but he wasn't at the convention. My point was, the President won the election, so who is the party that really needs to look at what they did wrong (in the election).

Delaying the elections is the second worst thing we could do, behind us cutting and running now. We will never kill all of the terrorists. What an election will do is prove to the people that most of the country believes in democracy over terrorism. An election will decrease the recruiting of terrorists. The terrorists and those that support them (Iran and Syria) are making one last stand. An election will be there greatest defeat.

Yes, let freedom ring!!


Chrish - No, I don't pull my punches. I put up that second post before I saw yours, so I'm not trying to keep putting up graphic descriptions to upset you, as I know you're already very aware of the horrors our government has sponsored in Central America in the past.

I put them up so that anyone who's tempted to think, as you said, "Well, something's got to be done to get the insurgents/terrorists, a few civilians might get killed, but well, that's the price of freedom" will be very much aware that death squads ARE terrorists, in the absolute worst way possible.

I put them up so that no one reading this can say they weren't warned about what death squads are capable of.

If reports come back from Iraq about such incidents, the blood will be on our hands. Posting this on a blog is the least I can do to salve my conscience - and I didn't even vote for Bush, or this war.


The "death squads" so called, are simply what some people think might happen. I doubt there is a huge cheering section of people saying, "yeah, let's go out and kill civilians"


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